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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/01/2004 Roundabout Study Session MinutesROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. PLACE AND DATE Marana Town Hall, June 1, 2004 I. CALL TO ORDER By Vice Mayor Kai at 5:40 p.m. The study session was held, and roll call was taken. Mayor Sutton and Council Member Comerford were excused. All other Council Members were present and seated at the dais. Senior staff and Town consultants present were Mike Reuwsaat, Jaret Barr, Fernando Prol, Monica Moxley and Jocelyn Bronson. II. GENERAL ORDER OF BUSINESS 1. Studv Session: Presentation and Discussion of Proposed Roundabouts in the Town (Fernando Prol and Monica Moxley) Mr. Reuwsaat began the study session and stated that Fernando Prol would give a presentation on roundabouts. In the Northwest Area Plan, one of the options given to developers in the Northwest area was the option of using roundabouts. The staff has some concern about the use of those in terms of location and their particular use as is currently being proposed by some of the first developments coming in for consideration in the Northwest area. Because it's something new and not currently in Marana, we thought that a workshop .would be in order so the concept could be forwarded and we could talk about the implications of allowing or not allowing roundabouts in the community. Staff can then forward on a policy We haven't developed one, but we thought it was important enough to spend some time with you, go over the presentation, take questions, and then give us some direction as to where we go from there. Mr. Prol gave a presentation regarding modern roundabouts and their use. He feels this issue is very relevant right now for the Town for several reasons. Number one, the use of roundabouts is becoming very popular throughout the United States, and a lot of jurisdictions are using them for a variety of reasons. Second, and most importantly for the Town, at this time we have four planned roundabouts on town streets. Three are shown on a slide. Mr. Prol said two roundabouts are planned to be installed as part of the roadway improvements for Vanderbilt Farms Project, one on Clark Farms Boulevard and Lon Adams, and the other one at Clark Farms and Civic Center Drive. Other planned roundabouts will be with the roadway improvement for the Town Center roadway and by parcels 56 and 57, which is by Silverbell Road and Cortaro Road where the Library and the new district park will be. Mr. Prol felt that this would be an opportune time to make this presentation on roundabouts. ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. Mr. Prol distinguished between the three different types of circular intersections. One is the residential traffic circle, which is shown in the slide. Another one is the old rotary. And finally, there is the modern roundabout, which is the focus of the presentation. Mr. Prol explained that residential traffic circles have become very popular because they are used for the purpose of traffic calming. Traffic calming is the trendy word for slowing speeders down on residential streets. Residential traffic circles are normally installed on residential streets at low-volume intersections. Usually to control at those intersections are stop signs on either two of the streets or on all four of the streets. One of the interesting things about the residential traffic circles is that most of the time, left turns are allowed in front of the circle as opposed to the rotaries and roundabouts. The example that he showed had a sign that tells you to go around the circle, but that is atypical for traffic circles. He went on to explain that these traffic circles are usually used in a series, usually put down two, three, four or more, about five to seven hundred feet apart. That is the best way to slow motorists down on a residential street over a long section of road. As far as residential traffic circles are concerned, he stated that the traffic engineering division has been working on developing a neighborhood management program, which will be proposing the use of residential circles, speed humps, and other measures to be proactive in addressing speeding and cut-through traffic in our neighborhoods. A neighborhood traffic management traffic program could be the subject of another presentation. The second circular intersection Mr. Prol talked about was the old rotaries. They are the largest of all the circular intersections. The first one was built in 1905 in New York. After that one was built, they became very popular. Many American cities started using them, especially along the East coast. Mr. Prol being from the Washington, D.C. area said that every time they would drive down town, they had to go through major rotaries that were a headache to drive through. He said a lot of people do not like the old rotaries. They are becoming very unpopular. As a matter of fact, a lot of jurisdictions are getting rid of them as we speak, he said. Mr. Prol further explained that one of the main features of the old rotaries is that the entering traffic has the right-of--way when one enters the circular area. Circulating traffic has to stop when entering traffic enters. That means that the circulating traffic often locks up, which was depicted in the example photograph of an old rotary in Madrid, Spain. The entering traffic, also, does not have to slow down, because the entry roadways are almost in a straight line; there is no deflection. All of those things put together, with the entering traffic having the right-of--way and entering at high speeds, there is a high potential for accidents. He stated that over the years the traffic 2 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. volumes have increased in our cities, and these intersections have become more and more dangerous and more and more unpopular. They are being removed throughout the U.S. and elsewhere. They are larger than modern roundabouts and by far the largest of the circular intersections. They take up a lot of right-of--way. Again, they are being removed throughout the U.S. and elsewhere. He said he knew that New Jersey has a program where they are getting rid of all their rotaries and replacing them with either modern roundabouts or traffic signals. Mr. Prol went on to explain the difference between the modern roundabout and the old rotary. He said that in 1966, in order to rectify the problems caused by rotaries, the first roundabout was built in England. What was innovative about the modern roundabout, and still is, is that the entering traffic now yields to circulating traffic so that the whole operation and control issue has changed. He explained that circulating traffic, therefore, always keeps moving. Also the entering traffic has to slow down to do what is called deflection. He explained that deflection is the redirection of vehicles from their normal, straight path and that this is brought about by the entry radius and by the island so that the deflection slows traffic down. Again, he explained, that type of operation, the yielding traffic yielding to the circulating traffic and the entering traffic, has greatly reduced the potential for accidents at modern roundabouts. They are smaller than rotaries, as he previously explained, and they are becoming extremely popular throughout the country. He went on to focus on the modern roundabouts and their characteristics. Priority is given to the circulating traffic, so it always keeps moving. Yield signs are used for control to make sure that the entering traffic yields before entering the circular area. The deflection through this area slows the traffic down as it enters the roundabouts. One of the main innovations of the modern roundabouts are the splitter islands which serve several purposes. They keep motorists from turning left in front of the circular island. They slow down traffic by helping with the deflection. Most important, they help with pedestrian crossings, because pedestrians aren't supposed to cross across the circular area, he said. He explained they will cross at the narrower entry streets because that makes it safer for them. He further explained that modern roundabouts have a greater capacity than traffic signals or stop controls. Capacity, being difficult to define, basically means if you have two intersections with the same entering volumes and one has a traffic signal and one has a modern roundabout, motorists at the modern roundabout intersection will experience less delay. There would be less congestion. Modern roundabouts are safer than other types of controls such as signals and stop signs. 3 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. Mr. Prol presented a graphic of how roundabouts are safer. In the exhibits he presented, he explained that the one entitled Reduced Conflict Points shows the intersection with the conventional signal or stop control and then a roundabout. He said a conflict is defined as any location where two vehicles or a vehicle and a pedestrian or a bicyclist might meet. Using the exhibit, he pointed out there are thirty-two different conflict points. He explained that with the roundabout there are only eight conflict points, and he further explained that the reason for that is that there are only right turns with a roundabout. He noted that a recent study showed there are about 39 percent less overall accidents at roundabouts than at signalized intersections. He said roundabouts also experience 76 percent less injury-type accidents than signalized intersections. He explained that is obviously because there are not high-speed, right-angle, T-bone, head-on type accidents at roundabouts. He also stated that roundabouts experience about 90 percent less fatalities than signalized intersections. COUNCIL MEMBER HONER: pointed out that the exhibit shows the conventional intersection and the roundabout intersection taking about the same amount of space, and asked if that was true, or if the roundabout actually takes up more room. Mr. Prol said a round about would take more space. COUNCIL MEMBER HONER asked if they were close to the same amount of space. Mr. Prol said it depends on the intersection, but in most instances, yes, the roundabout will take up more space for what is called the inscribed circle within the intersection. COUNCIL MEMBER HONER explained he meant to ask about more right-of--way, if there would have to be wider or bigger right-of--ways than the conventional intersection. Mr. Prol said, yes, the roundabout would take up more space within the round circular intersection. However, he went on to explain, a signalized intersection would need more right-of--way because there would need to be more lanes of approach. He explained that, for instance, a typical signalized intersection may have an exclusive left turn lane, a through lane or two through lanes, and a right turn lane, which is four lanes, whereas a roundabout only has one lane of approach. So with the roundabout more is needed for the circular; the signal more is needed for all the approaches, so it kind of evens out most of the time. VICE MAYOR KAI asked Fernando about the conventional versus the roundabout, 4 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. what the maximum volume each one would handle in actual numbers. Mr. Prol said that typically a traffic signal before it starts failing, will handle about 24,000 vehicles per day. He explained that capacity is difficult to define, but that was a round figure. He said aone-lane roundabout would handle about 20,000 vehicles a day; atwo-lane roundabout will handle about 40,000 vehicles a day. Mr. Prol went on to talk about the pros and cons of roundabouts. He started with saying the pros, again, are that they are safer than other types of control; they are less costly than traffic signals, and especially, they are less costly than traffic signals when considering the long term. With a traffic signal it would cost three to $4,000 per year in power, maintenance, replacement bulbs, replacing loop detectors in the roadway, video cameras and everything used for detection. He said the lifespan of a traffic signal is typically about 10 to 12 years, while for a roundabout it is about twenty-five years. He said the only maintenance on a roundabout would be curb repairs and possible landscaping costs and maintenance. He explained those are pros of roundabouts, along with community enhancement, providing communities with an opportunity for beautification and, also for traffic calming through certain areas. He went on to talk about the disadvantages of roundabouts by saying that they maybe ,. confusing to motorists, especially for motorists living in an area without a lot of roundabouts. He said studies have shown and his experience reflects that 68 percent of people surveyed were against a roundabout before it went in, but 76 were in favor of it after it went in. He explained that a lot of it was education and not being aware of exactly what's being put in and how it operates. He said a lot of people have rotaries in mind when they think about roundabouts. He said one major flaw or disadvantage if roundabouts is definitely slows down the major movement. He said if a roundabout is on an arterial road or a collector road, it is, basically, reverse engineering, whereas, the roadway was built to handle a certain amount of traffic at a certain speed and in trying to move traffic from point A to point B as quickly and as efficiently and as safely as possible, and now a roundabout is being put in, which is going to clog up the roadway a little bit and bring down its level of service as far as capacity, and it will definitely slow down emergency vehicles. He said he has experience with traffic-calming issues, and fire departments do not like the installation of roundabouts because it slows them down and they don't want anything in the roadway that will slow them down. He said they would rather have a signal that they can pre-empt. Next he discussed when to use roundabouts, and stated there are no warrants available for roundabouts, meaning using the manual and uniform traffic control devices, which have to be conformed with as far as state law is concerned. For instance, he said, before installing a traffic signal, a certain warrant has to be met, and certain ,,,~, volume thresholds have to be met. He said there has to be a certain amount of traffic 5 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. on the main street and a certain amount of traffic on the minor street before it can be determined a signal needs to be installed. He said there are no such warrants for roundabouts, and that most jurisdictions install them in lieu of other types of control. You may have an intersection, for instance, that needs to signal warrants, but for aesthetic reasons or whatever you want to install a roundabout, maybe that is a location where a roundabout is installed. He said sometimes there might be a location or intersection that is experiencing a high number of traffic accidents but doesn't need the signal warrants, and that might be a good location for a roundabout. He said the same thing regarding capacity, that there might be an intersection that is experiencing a lot of congestion but doesn't need the signal warrants, that, again, would be a logical location for a roundabout. He said they can be used for traffic calming. Again, distinguishing between roundabouts and traffic circles, traffic circles can be used on residential streets and use roundabouts for calming on collector streets. He didn't recommend installing them on arterial roadways for traffic calming, saying that should not be done on an arterial roadway. For community enhancement, he said a lot of communities are installing roundabouts because they are great for gateways entering municipal complexes, entering commercial areas, residential neighborhoods, and it also provides an opportunity for landscaping. Giving an example of a gateway roundabout, Mr. Prol referred to the exhibit entitled Gateways, pointing out it is entering Avon Municipal Complex. He pointed out the exhibit has a statue in the middle, and is a very nice looking roundabout. He said a lot of people like roundabouts because quite a bit can be done with the landscaping on them, referring to the exhibit entitled Landscaping, stating also that he has seen some beautiful landscaping on roundabouts on the East Coast. The last example, he pointed out, is an example of both gateway and into possibly a commercial district and mature landscaping on the roundabout, pointing out it does provide an opportunity for beautification. COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY asked about bicyclists regarding whether there was more danger to this sort of intersection than a regular red light. Mr. Prol said it would be just the same as for pedestrians, and it would be a lot safer. He indicated on an exhibit where a shared bike path intersecting. with one island, because it provides a shorter distance for them to cross, and they only need to look one way for traffic approaching from that direction, plus it provides a refuge area for them to stop in. He added that bicyclists love the roundabouts, without a doubt. MR. REUWSAAT stated that the entryway would be back, further away from the 6 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. roundabout than a traditional intersection, and Mr. Prol indicated that yes, it would be. COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO stated that the pedestrian crossing is what would concern him because there is no light or signaling if someone is in the walkway. Especially if a car is in the roundabout, it is probably already speeding by the time the driver sees somebody, and he stated he was concerned with pedestrians, especially with as far back as the crossing is located. Mr. Prol said typically that one of the biggest reasons that the roundabouts were installed are because they are so pedestrian friendly, saying that, again, it is creating a shorter distance for pedestrians to cross, and they are provided with a refuge area. He said that from his experience and the literature he has read, they are very pedestrian friendly. COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY asked if there is a traditional designated speed limit for a roundabout. Mr. Prol said that typically roundabouts are entered from about 15 to 20 miles an hour, and that can be posted, depending on how much signing is being put up. He indicated on an exhibit where there might be a roundabout warning sign with a 15- mile-an-hour or 20-mile-an-hour advisory speed plate on it, so we do let motorists know. He said it's kind of difficult to enter a roundabout any faster than about 15 to 20 miles an hour because of the deflection caused by the island and the entry radius and the fact that they have to yield. VICE MAYOR KAI asked about large vans that come into the homes, and whether they could maneuver the roundabouts, or even farm equipment finding its way to the roundabout. Mr. Prol said that, first of all, they are designed for what is called a WB-50 truck, which is the largest truck. VICE MAYOR KAI asked if that was an 18-wheeler. Mr. Prol stated that it is. Using one of the exhibits, he stated that it depicts what is called a truck apron, which can be added, and will be added to our roundabouts. He said he was not aware if the Town Center one has it, because it has been a while in design, but that almost all the new ones that have been coming in, he is asking for the truck apron because that makes it even more comfortable for a truck to make the turn if they have to. COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked if the bicyclists use the inside like the truck ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. apron if they were trying to go around, or if they use the outside of the roundabout. Mr. Prol said that a bicyclist would probably just use it as a car would. COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked if the center island becomes an attractive nuisance because of people in the area that might be walking through there, stating he cannot see there being a grassy knoll out there, but rather maybe xeriscape or cacti and rocks or something like that, because he said he thinks that would be an attractive nuisance, even for the bicycle groups: "Hey, we'll meet in the center of the roundabout; then we'll all take of£" Mr. Prol said that's why you need to be very careful of what is put in the roundabout. He said you wouldn't want to put any kind of statue or anything with names or anything on it that might attract people to come and look at it, so you need to be careful about that. COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked how big the area is. BOB ANDERSON stated that he came from the East Coast, spending 40 years in New Jersey. He said that was the first place he had encountered those, other than traveling internationally. He said that from the time he got there to when he subsequently left in `95, they had been trying to get rid of them. He said they had spent millions of dollars, and said they are the worst conception of traffic engineers, saying they are just awful. He said people in their vehicles cannot get from one street to the other. He said once people get in that roundabout, it becomes a little bit of a joke because people will not yield, so they do not let other guys coming in that want to get in. He said even if they just want to go to the first right turn, they will not let them go in, and they go around and around and around just to keep them from getting in. He said cars backed up in Summerville on Route 202 and Route 206. He said they backed up into the town of Summerville, which was eight miles from the roundabout. He said they finally corrected it by putting two bridges over it, one that connected to each of the roads. He said another major problem was the collection of garbage in the center, and that maintenance people would refuse to go in there. He said they would have to close down the whole roundabout for several hours, which became increasingly impractical. He said the garbage just collected there, paper, stuff, not just people littering, but just normal collection of very busy streets. MAYOR SUTTON said he would put Bob down as being an against. He then asked if -those sound more like rotaries, though. Mr. Prol said they did, and he covered that. COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA said because those on the East Coast are where the 8 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. person in the circle yields. BOB ANDERSON said, no, not in New Jersey. Mr. Prol said that he was not sure who yields to whom in New Jersey. BOB ANDERSON said that rule in New Jersey is if you are in, you have the right- of-way, not the entering cars. Mr. Prol said New Jersey was the state he had mentioned earlier that is getting rid of them because they are going to the modern roundabouts. In face, we had one photograph which showed the modern roundabout superimposed over the old rotary because that is what they were doing. They were replacing one with the other. BOB ANDERSON said he had an experience with the old one in Paris where he had gone `round and `round the Orchid Triangle for three hours. JARET BARB advised the Vice Mayor and members of the council that the rotaries that Mr. Anderson referred to are very prevalent on the East Coast, even though it is yield coming into the rotary, the way they were designed and the type of traffic flows that are coming into the rotaries have created virtual nightmares for any drivers. He said he could attest, coming from Massachusetts, that there is one near where Council Member McGorray and I used to live in Chelmsford that is the biggest nightmare. He said that he thought Mr. Prol was talking about is that there are problems with having these types of traffic calming measures around roads that are going to have a lot of cars on them. He said the reason Mr. Prol and Ms. 1~loxley were present was to try to educate the Council on what a roundabout is and how it can be used effectively, and how it can be used negatively, and the fact that there are developments coming in with rotaries already put on both collector and arterial roads. He said they just want to inform you on how they be used effectively and get a general understanding from you on how you want us to handle the developments as they come in. MAYOR SUTTON said that his idea is that they would not put this at Cortaro and Silverbell, to which Mr. Barr agreed. Mayor Sutton went on to say that it may be put at Coachline and Holmbrook or near the rec center or something, and Coachline is even an arterial. COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said they were not talking about putting this at Cortaro and Silverbell. JARET BARR said they were not talking personally about putting them anywhere, but that in the north Marana area, and I think Vanderbilt farms and as I have heard from some people in the Monterey 154, what they are wondering if they are going on 9 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. this road, like Clark Farms Road, how they are going to work and what the Council and town staff wants to see in them if they are going to happen. Mr. Barr said they just wanted to bring this as an informational item with no action, just for general discussion, including Mr. Anderson's points, which he thought were well founded. Mr. Prol said that we needed to emphasize that what was being focused on are one- lane roundabouts, mostly for collector roadways. He said they were not emphasizing or promoting multi-lane roundabouts being put on arterials. He said that most of the time the advantages are lost that is gained by having a roundabout, because all of a sudden it is a more complex-type of operation with two lanes entering at higher speeds, because you can't have the same deflection. He said if you are going to have an arterial roadway, you might as well put traffic signals that are coordinated. He said arterial roadways are to move traffic. He said he thought that roundabouts is a tremendous tool for use for collector roadways. MAYOR SUTTON asked if there are any examples that are in communities, because it is hard to get off-center and change things and do things different without examples or visuals. Mr. Prol said he didn't mind Mayor Sutton's example of Coachline. MAYOR SUTTON said that if there was something to look out if developments are doing them and even on the collectors on the inside of the developments themselves, because he said we are not going to see this on arterial roads, because we have enough traffic problems as it is and that they were not trying to slow the capacity or calm the traffic. He said the traffic areas where we have had problems, we have other issues to deal with, and we are not going to slow that down or make the cues a mile long like we were talking about. Mr. Prol said that he thought roadways such as Coachline, such as we probably expect Clark Farms Boulevard to be, which are going to be collector roadways going through residential neighborhoods where you may not have homes fronting the roadway, but there are homes backing on the roadway, a lot of pedestrian activity, a lot of parks; Coachline has the swimming pool. He said those are locations that might be ideal for the roundabouts. COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said he saw a lot of traffic on Clark Farms with Barnett. COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE asked if a traffic study had been done on Coachline, particularly during rush hour. ,,, Mr. Prol said he imagined there was a fairly high volume of traffic. 10 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said you would not want a roundabout on Coachline during rush hour, morning or evening, I guarantee you. MAYOR SUTTON said he had just used it as an example. Mr. Prol said the would have to do an traffic engineering study to justify such an installation. COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY said she- could see the strategy on Clark Farms Boulevard. She said if you are coming from Tangerine, and Carl has had problems in his neighborhood, maybe it would be just enough to slow people down. She went on to say another advantage for off-time not rush-time traffic is one way you can just keep going without having to stop and start again, so you kind of have the continuity of old Marana where you can, basically, get around without stopping and starting. She said she could see an advantage that way, depending upon the traffic volume. COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said people are going to be using Clark Farm to get to Town Hall. Having all your employees, Town Hall is going to be the centralized location, and there will be a lot of traffic going in and out. He said the ~~ easiest means of arriving at Town Hall would be down Clark Farm because Barnett is no longer there. He said he thinks there is going to be more traffic in that area. MAYOR SUTTON said employees driving to Town Hall would not even show up on a traffic report because it is a very small number of trips. COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said but you have to also consider the fact that, in this general area, will be the highest density of homes, so there will be more traffic with more density. MAYOR SUTTON asked if there were any other questions. MR.REUWSAAT asked about traffic circles, saying that Tucson was increasingly using traffic circles when going back into the neighborhoods as a traffic calming. MAYOR SUTTON asked what a traffic circle is. MR. REUWSAAT said it is the smaller version in a residential area. COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY said there is one in Tucson National and that you can make a left and go around or just go straight across. MR. REUWSAAT said when he went through afive-block area from Ace Hardware 11 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. to his daughter's house, there are three traffic circles in the residential area. COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said in South Tucson, near the rodeo grounds, if go one street over, you have them every intersection. MR. REUWSAAT said it is very residential and what is does is just keeps him from speeding through the neighborhood, because when he gets to the corner, then he has to slow down around it, which, for me, is a different concept. Do you put higher-end traffic volumes that would be acceptable on a roundabout. He said, let's say Clark Farms corner. If you said it is only good till 24,000, you know that the capacity of that street will be 24,000, would you recommend to go ahead and put a traffic roundabout in that; or do we know that at least for the last 5,000 or 7,000 or 10,000 cars you are going to start to get frustration? Mr. Prol said that the projection they have as of now for Clark Farms are that both of those roundabouts will operate at a level of service till 2030. That's from Curt Lueck's study. MAYOR SUTTON Mike, like you were just saying, my whole idea for looking at this is we get all the calls for people speeding on Palm Brook and Maple Ridge, do they just get off of Coachline and go as fast as they can to their house? We put motorcycle cops, and do all kind of stuff out there. He said these are not traffic controls, just people getting the last 500 yards of their trip, but they are doing 50 where they should be doing 25. He said if something like that was planned into residential, interior, if we get too much traffic, and like Carol said people are used to getting around out here, I don't want to put obstructions in people's way that live out here; but if we could plan better on the inner parts of a community, it would erase some of the headache that we know we're dealing with now. He said if we could go into Continental Ranch and place several roundabouts, which will not be done with easements and people owning homes and stuff, there are a few areas where it would, absolutely, be a great think for the community. Mr. Prol said we were talking earlier about the neighborhood traffic management program that we are putting together, and traffic circles is one of the things we will be looking at and, also, speed humps. He said the flat-top speed humps are very popular back East. UNIDENTIFIED said he is a resident of Continental Reserve but also a traffic engineer and I want to compliment one thing that Fernando said. You would not want to put it on an arterial road, but another thing is you do not want to put them where there is a prevalent major movement and a minor movement. If both volumes are similar, then it works much better. He said a couple of examples were Hartman and Linda Vista, or maybe the area where Wade Road connects to that Pima Farms or 12 ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION MARANA TOWN HALL 13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m. comes out Continental Circle. . Mayor Sutton asked if there was anything further, stating there was another meeting starting in a little bit. III. ADJOURNMENT The Mayor adjourned the meeting. The time was 6:20 p.m. CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing are the true and correct minutes of the Roundabout Study Session held on June 1, 2004. I further certify that a quorum was present. ~~,~~n ne~~~~ ~~ of M,~ ei elyn onson, Town Clerk „~~„ ~O~ coA~ rf~ y s 5~+ ~? • ~. ,4~~~I4W~~~``~ 13