HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/01/2004 Roundabout Study Session MinutesROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
PLACE AND DATE
Marana Town Hall, June 1, 2004
I. CALL TO ORDER
By Vice Mayor Kai at 5:40 p.m.
The study session was held, and roll call was taken. Mayor Sutton and Council Member
Comerford were excused. All other Council Members were present and seated at the
dais. Senior staff and Town consultants present were Mike Reuwsaat, Jaret Barr,
Fernando Prol, Monica Moxley and Jocelyn Bronson.
II. GENERAL ORDER OF BUSINESS
1. Studv Session: Presentation and Discussion of Proposed Roundabouts in the
Town (Fernando Prol and Monica Moxley)
Mr. Reuwsaat began the study session and stated that Fernando Prol would give a
presentation on roundabouts. In the Northwest Area Plan, one of the options given to
developers in the Northwest area was the option of using roundabouts. The staff has
some concern about the use of those in terms of location and their particular use as is
currently being proposed by some of the first developments coming in for
consideration in the Northwest area. Because it's something new and not currently in
Marana, we thought that a workshop .would be in order so the concept could be
forwarded and we could talk about the implications of allowing or not allowing
roundabouts in the community. Staff can then forward on a policy We haven't
developed one, but we thought it was important enough to spend some time with you,
go over the presentation, take questions, and then give us some direction as to where
we go from there.
Mr. Prol gave a presentation regarding modern roundabouts and their use. He feels
this issue is very relevant right now for the Town for several reasons. Number one,
the use of roundabouts is becoming very popular throughout the United States, and a
lot of jurisdictions are using them for a variety of reasons. Second, and most
importantly for the Town, at this time we have four planned roundabouts on town
streets. Three are shown on a slide.
Mr. Prol said two roundabouts are planned to be installed as part of the roadway
improvements for Vanderbilt Farms Project, one on Clark Farms Boulevard and Lon
Adams, and the other one at Clark Farms and Civic Center Drive. Other planned
roundabouts will be with the roadway improvement for the Town Center roadway
and by parcels 56 and 57, which is by Silverbell Road and Cortaro Road where the
Library and the new district park will be. Mr. Prol felt that this would be an
opportune time to make this presentation on roundabouts.
ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
Mr. Prol distinguished between the three different types of circular intersections. One
is the residential traffic circle, which is shown in the slide. Another one is the old
rotary. And finally, there is the modern roundabout, which is the focus of the
presentation.
Mr. Prol explained that residential traffic circles have become very popular because
they are used for the purpose of traffic calming. Traffic calming is the trendy word
for slowing speeders down on residential streets. Residential traffic circles are
normally installed on residential streets at low-volume intersections. Usually to
control at those intersections are stop signs on either two of the streets or on all four
of the streets. One of the interesting things about the residential traffic circles is that
most of the time, left turns are allowed in front of the circle as opposed to the rotaries
and roundabouts. The example that he showed had a sign that tells you to go around
the circle, but that is atypical for traffic circles.
He went on to explain that these traffic circles are usually used in a series, usually put
down two, three, four or more, about five to seven hundred feet apart. That is the best
way to slow motorists down on a residential street over a long section of road. As far
as residential traffic circles are concerned, he stated that the traffic engineering
division has been working on developing a neighborhood management program,
which will be proposing the use of residential circles, speed humps, and other
measures to be proactive in addressing speeding and cut-through traffic in our
neighborhoods. A neighborhood traffic management traffic program could be the
subject of another presentation.
The second circular intersection Mr. Prol talked about was the old rotaries. They are
the largest of all the circular intersections. The first one was built in 1905 in New
York. After that one was built, they became very popular. Many American cities
started using them, especially along the East coast. Mr. Prol being from the
Washington, D.C. area said that every time they would drive down town, they had to
go through major rotaries that were a headache to drive through. He said a lot of
people do not like the old rotaries. They are becoming very unpopular. As a matter
of fact, a lot of jurisdictions are getting rid of them as we speak, he said.
Mr. Prol further explained that one of the main features of the old rotaries is that the
entering traffic has the right-of--way when one enters the circular area. Circulating
traffic has to stop when entering traffic enters. That means that the circulating traffic
often locks up, which was depicted in the example photograph of an old rotary in
Madrid, Spain. The entering traffic, also, does not have to slow down, because the
entry roadways are almost in a straight line; there is no deflection. All of those things
put together, with the entering traffic having the right-of--way and entering at high
speeds, there is a high potential for accidents. He stated that over the years the traffic
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
volumes have increased in our cities, and these intersections have become more and
more dangerous and more and more unpopular. They are being removed throughout
the U.S. and elsewhere. They are larger than modern roundabouts and by far the
largest of the circular intersections. They take up a lot of right-of--way. Again, they
are being removed throughout the U.S. and elsewhere. He said he knew that New
Jersey has a program where they are getting rid of all their rotaries and replacing
them with either modern roundabouts or traffic signals.
Mr. Prol went on to explain the difference between the modern roundabout and the
old rotary. He said that in 1966, in order to rectify the problems caused by rotaries,
the first roundabout was built in England. What was innovative about the modern
roundabout, and still is, is that the entering traffic now yields to circulating traffic so
that the whole operation and control issue has changed. He explained that circulating
traffic, therefore, always keeps moving. Also the entering traffic has to slow down to
do what is called deflection.
He explained that deflection is the redirection of vehicles from their normal, straight
path and that this is brought about by the entry radius and by the island so that the
deflection slows traffic down. Again, he explained, that type of operation, the
yielding traffic yielding to the circulating traffic and the entering traffic, has greatly
reduced the potential for accidents at modern roundabouts. They are smaller than
rotaries, as he previously explained, and they are becoming extremely popular
throughout the country.
He went on to focus on the modern roundabouts and their characteristics. Priority is
given to the circulating traffic, so it always keeps moving. Yield signs are used for
control to make sure that the entering traffic yields before entering the circular area.
The deflection through this area slows the traffic down as it enters the roundabouts.
One of the main innovations of the modern roundabouts are the splitter islands which
serve several purposes. They keep motorists from turning left in front of the circular
island. They slow down traffic by helping with the deflection. Most important, they
help with pedestrian crossings, because pedestrians aren't supposed to cross across
the circular area, he said. He explained they will cross at the narrower entry streets
because that makes it safer for them.
He further explained that modern roundabouts have a greater capacity than traffic
signals or stop controls. Capacity, being difficult to define, basically means if you
have two intersections with the same entering volumes and one has a traffic signal
and one has a modern roundabout, motorists at the modern roundabout intersection
will experience less delay. There would be less congestion. Modern roundabouts are
safer than other types of controls such as signals and stop signs.
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ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
Mr. Prol presented a graphic of how roundabouts are safer. In the exhibits he
presented, he explained that the one entitled Reduced Conflict Points shows the
intersection with the conventional signal or stop control and then a roundabout. He
said a conflict is defined as any location where two vehicles or a vehicle and a
pedestrian or a bicyclist might meet. Using the exhibit, he pointed out there are
thirty-two different conflict points. He explained that with the roundabout there are
only eight conflict points, and he further explained that the reason for that is that there
are only right turns with a roundabout.
He noted that a recent study showed there are about 39 percent less overall accidents
at roundabouts than at signalized intersections. He said roundabouts also experience
76 percent less injury-type accidents than signalized intersections. He explained that
is obviously because there are not high-speed, right-angle, T-bone, head-on type
accidents at roundabouts. He also stated that roundabouts experience about 90
percent less fatalities than signalized intersections.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONER: pointed out that the exhibit shows the
conventional intersection and the roundabout intersection taking about the same
amount of space, and asked if that was true, or if the roundabout actually takes up
more room.
Mr. Prol said a round about would take more space.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONER asked if they were close to the same amount of
space.
Mr. Prol said it depends on the intersection, but in most instances, yes, the roundabout
will take up more space for what is called the inscribed circle within the intersection.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONER explained he meant to ask about more right-of--way,
if there would have to be wider or bigger right-of--ways than the conventional
intersection.
Mr. Prol said, yes, the roundabout would take up more space within the round circular
intersection. However, he went on to explain, a signalized intersection would need
more right-of--way because there would need to be more lanes of approach. He
explained that, for instance, a typical signalized intersection may have an exclusive
left turn lane, a through lane or two through lanes, and a right turn lane, which is four
lanes, whereas a roundabout only has one lane of approach. So with the roundabout
more is needed for the circular; the signal more is needed for all the approaches, so it
kind of evens out most of the time.
VICE MAYOR KAI asked Fernando about the conventional versus the roundabout,
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
what the maximum volume each one would handle in actual numbers.
Mr. Prol said that typically a traffic signal before it starts failing, will handle about
24,000 vehicles per day. He explained that capacity is difficult to define, but that was
a round figure. He said aone-lane roundabout would handle about 20,000 vehicles a
day; atwo-lane roundabout will handle about 40,000 vehicles a day.
Mr. Prol went on to talk about the pros and cons of roundabouts. He started with
saying the pros, again, are that they are safer than other types of control; they are less
costly than traffic signals, and especially, they are less costly than traffic signals when
considering the long term. With a traffic signal it would cost three to $4,000 per year
in power, maintenance, replacement bulbs, replacing loop detectors in the roadway,
video cameras and everything used for detection. He said the lifespan of a traffic
signal is typically about 10 to 12 years, while for a roundabout it is about twenty-five
years. He said the only maintenance on a roundabout would be curb repairs and
possible landscaping costs and maintenance. He explained those are pros of
roundabouts, along with community enhancement, providing communities with an
opportunity for beautification and, also for traffic calming through certain areas.
He went on to talk about the disadvantages of roundabouts by saying that they maybe
,. confusing to motorists, especially for motorists living in an area without a lot of
roundabouts. He said studies have shown and his experience reflects that 68 percent
of people surveyed were against a roundabout before it went in, but 76 were in favor
of it after it went in. He explained that a lot of it was education and not being aware
of exactly what's being put in and how it operates. He said a lot of people have
rotaries in mind when they think about roundabouts. He said one major flaw or
disadvantage if roundabouts is definitely slows down the major movement. He said if
a roundabout is on an arterial road or a collector road, it is, basically, reverse
engineering, whereas, the roadway was built to handle a certain amount of traffic at a
certain speed and in trying to move traffic from point A to point B as quickly and as
efficiently and as safely as possible, and now a roundabout is being put in, which is
going to clog up the roadway a little bit and bring down its level of service as far as
capacity, and it will definitely slow down emergency vehicles. He said he has
experience with traffic-calming issues, and fire departments do not like the
installation of roundabouts because it slows them down and they don't want anything
in the roadway that will slow them down. He said they would rather have a signal
that they can pre-empt.
Next he discussed when to use roundabouts, and stated there are no warrants available
for roundabouts, meaning using the manual and uniform traffic control devices,
which have to be conformed with as far as state law is concerned. For instance, he
said, before installing a traffic signal, a certain warrant has to be met, and certain
,,,~, volume thresholds have to be met. He said there has to be a certain amount of traffic
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
on the main street and a certain amount of traffic on the minor street before it can be
determined a signal needs to be installed. He said there are no such warrants for
roundabouts, and that most jurisdictions install them in lieu of other types of control.
You may have an intersection, for instance, that needs to signal warrants, but for
aesthetic reasons or whatever you want to install a roundabout, maybe that is a
location where a roundabout is installed. He said sometimes there might be a location
or intersection that is experiencing a high number of traffic accidents but doesn't need
the signal warrants, and that might be a good location for a roundabout. He said the
same thing regarding capacity, that there might be an intersection that is experiencing
a lot of congestion but doesn't need the signal warrants, that, again, would be a
logical location for a roundabout. He said they can be used for traffic calming.
Again, distinguishing between roundabouts and traffic circles, traffic circles can be
used on residential streets and use roundabouts for calming on collector streets. He
didn't recommend installing them on arterial roadways for traffic calming, saying that
should not be done on an arterial roadway. For community enhancement, he said a
lot of communities are installing roundabouts because they are great for gateways
entering municipal complexes, entering commercial areas, residential neighborhoods,
and it also provides an opportunity for landscaping.
Giving an example of a gateway roundabout, Mr. Prol referred to the exhibit entitled
Gateways, pointing out it is entering Avon Municipal Complex. He pointed out the
exhibit has a statue in the middle, and is a very nice looking roundabout.
He said a lot of people like roundabouts because quite a bit can be done with the
landscaping on them, referring to the exhibit entitled Landscaping, stating also that he
has seen some beautiful landscaping on roundabouts on the East Coast.
The last example, he pointed out, is an example of both gateway and into possibly a
commercial district and mature landscaping on the roundabout, pointing out it does
provide an opportunity for beautification.
COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY asked about bicyclists regarding whether there
was more danger to this sort of intersection than a regular red light.
Mr. Prol said it would be just the same as for pedestrians, and it would be a lot safer.
He indicated on an exhibit where a shared bike path intersecting. with one island,
because it provides a shorter distance for them to cross, and they only need to look
one way for traffic approaching from that direction, plus it provides a refuge area for
them to stop in. He added that bicyclists love the roundabouts, without a doubt.
MR. REUWSAAT stated that the entryway would be back, further away from the
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ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
roundabout than a traditional intersection, and Mr. Prol indicated that yes, it would
be.
COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO stated that the pedestrian crossing is what
would concern him because there is no light or signaling if someone is in the
walkway. Especially if a car is in the roundabout, it is probably already speeding by
the time the driver sees somebody, and he stated he was concerned with pedestrians,
especially with as far back as the crossing is located.
Mr. Prol said typically that one of the biggest reasons that the roundabouts were
installed are because they are so pedestrian friendly, saying that, again, it is creating a
shorter distance for pedestrians to cross, and they are provided with a refuge area. He
said that from his experience and the literature he has read, they are very pedestrian
friendly.
COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY asked if there is a traditional designated speed
limit for a roundabout.
Mr. Prol said that typically roundabouts are entered from about 15 to 20 miles an
hour, and that can be posted, depending on how much signing is being put up. He
indicated on an exhibit where there might be a roundabout warning sign with a 15-
mile-an-hour or 20-mile-an-hour advisory speed plate on it, so we do let motorists
know. He said it's kind of difficult to enter a roundabout any faster than about 15 to
20 miles an hour because of the deflection caused by the island and the entry radius
and the fact that they have to yield.
VICE MAYOR KAI asked about large vans that come into the homes, and whether
they could maneuver the roundabouts, or even farm equipment finding its way to the
roundabout.
Mr. Prol said that, first of all, they are designed for what is called a WB-50 truck,
which is the largest truck.
VICE MAYOR KAI asked if that was an 18-wheeler.
Mr. Prol stated that it is. Using one of the exhibits, he stated that it depicts what is
called a truck apron, which can be added, and will be added to our roundabouts. He
said he was not aware if the Town Center one has it, because it has been a while in
design, but that almost all the new ones that have been coming in, he is asking for the
truck apron because that makes it even more comfortable for a truck to make the turn
if they have to.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked if the bicyclists use the inside like the truck
ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
apron if they were trying to go around, or if they use the outside of the roundabout.
Mr. Prol said that a bicyclist would probably just use it as a car would.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked if the center island becomes an attractive
nuisance because of people in the area that might be walking through there, stating he
cannot see there being a grassy knoll out there, but rather maybe xeriscape or cacti
and rocks or something like that, because he said he thinks that would be an attractive
nuisance, even for the bicycle groups: "Hey, we'll meet in the center of the
roundabout; then we'll all take of£"
Mr. Prol said that's why you need to be very careful of what is put in the roundabout.
He said you wouldn't want to put any kind of statue or anything with names or
anything on it that might attract people to come and look at it, so you need to be
careful about that.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA asked how big the area is.
BOB ANDERSON stated that he came from the East Coast, spending 40 years in
New Jersey. He said that was the first place he had encountered those, other than
traveling internationally. He said that from the time he got there to when he
subsequently left in `95, they had been trying to get rid of them. He said they had
spent millions of dollars, and said they are the worst conception of traffic engineers,
saying they are just awful. He said people in their vehicles cannot get from one street
to the other. He said once people get in that roundabout, it becomes a little bit of a
joke because people will not yield, so they do not let other guys coming in that want
to get in. He said even if they just want to go to the first right turn, they will not let
them go in, and they go around and around and around just to keep them from getting
in. He said cars backed up in Summerville on Route 202 and Route 206. He said
they backed up into the town of Summerville, which was eight miles from the
roundabout. He said they finally corrected it by putting two bridges over it, one that
connected to each of the roads. He said another major problem was the collection of
garbage in the center, and that maintenance people would refuse to go in there. He
said they would have to close down the whole roundabout for several hours, which
became increasingly impractical. He said the garbage just collected there, paper,
stuff, not just people littering, but just normal collection of very busy streets.
MAYOR SUTTON said he would put Bob down as being an against. He then asked
if -those sound more like rotaries, though.
Mr. Prol said they did, and he covered that.
COUNCIL MEMBER HONEA said because those on the East Coast are where the
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
person in the circle yields.
BOB ANDERSON said, no, not in New Jersey.
Mr. Prol said that he was not sure who yields to whom in New Jersey.
BOB ANDERSON said that rule in New Jersey is if you are in, you have the right-
of-way, not the entering cars.
Mr. Prol said New Jersey was the state he had mentioned earlier that is getting rid of
them because they are going to the modern roundabouts. In face, we had one
photograph which showed the modern roundabout superimposed over the old rotary
because that is what they were doing. They were replacing one with the other.
BOB ANDERSON said he had an experience with the old one in Paris where he had
gone `round and `round the Orchid Triangle for three hours.
JARET BARB advised the Vice Mayor and members of the council that the rotaries
that Mr. Anderson referred to are very prevalent on the East Coast, even though it is
yield coming into the rotary, the way they were designed and the type of traffic flows
that are coming into the rotaries have created virtual nightmares for any drivers. He
said he could attest, coming from Massachusetts, that there is one near where Council
Member McGorray and I used to live in Chelmsford that is the biggest nightmare. He
said that he thought Mr. Prol was talking about is that there are problems with having
these types of traffic calming measures around roads that are going to have a lot of
cars on them. He said the reason Mr. Prol and Ms. 1~loxley were present was to try to
educate the Council on what a roundabout is and how it can be used effectively, and
how it can be used negatively, and the fact that there are developments coming in
with rotaries already put on both collector and arterial roads. He said they just want
to inform you on how they be used effectively and get a general understanding from
you on how you want us to handle the developments as they come in.
MAYOR SUTTON said that his idea is that they would not put this at Cortaro and
Silverbell, to which Mr. Barr agreed. Mayor Sutton went on to say that it may be put
at Coachline and Holmbrook or near the rec center or something, and Coachline is
even an arterial.
COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said they were not talking about putting this at
Cortaro and Silverbell.
JARET BARR said they were not talking personally about putting them anywhere,
but that in the north Marana area, and I think Vanderbilt farms and as I have heard
from some people in the Monterey 154, what they are wondering if they are going on
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
this road, like Clark Farms Road, how they are going to work and what the Council
and town staff wants to see in them if they are going to happen. Mr. Barr said they
just wanted to bring this as an informational item with no action, just for general
discussion, including Mr. Anderson's points, which he thought were well founded.
Mr. Prol said that we needed to emphasize that what was being focused on are one-
lane roundabouts, mostly for collector roadways. He said they were not emphasizing
or promoting multi-lane roundabouts being put on arterials. He said that most of the
time the advantages are lost that is gained by having a roundabout, because all of a
sudden it is a more complex-type of operation with two lanes entering at higher
speeds, because you can't have the same deflection. He said if you are going to have
an arterial roadway, you might as well put traffic signals that are coordinated. He
said arterial roadways are to move traffic. He said he thought that roundabouts is a
tremendous tool for use for collector roadways.
MAYOR SUTTON asked if there are any examples that are in communities, because
it is hard to get off-center and change things and do things different without examples
or visuals.
Mr. Prol said he didn't mind Mayor Sutton's example of Coachline.
MAYOR SUTTON said that if there was something to look out if developments are
doing them and even on the collectors on the inside of the developments themselves,
because he said we are not going to see this on arterial roads, because we have
enough traffic problems as it is and that they were not trying to slow the capacity or
calm the traffic. He said the traffic areas where we have had problems, we have other
issues to deal with, and we are not going to slow that down or make the cues a mile
long like we were talking about.
Mr. Prol said that he thought roadways such as Coachline, such as we probably
expect Clark Farms Boulevard to be, which are going to be collector roadways going
through residential neighborhoods where you may not have homes fronting the
roadway, but there are homes backing on the roadway, a lot of pedestrian activity, a
lot of parks; Coachline has the swimming pool. He said those are locations that might
be ideal for the roundabouts.
COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said he saw a lot of traffic on Clark Farms
with Barnett.
COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE asked if a traffic study had been done on Coachline,
particularly during rush hour.
,,, Mr. Prol said he imagined there was a fairly high volume of traffic.
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MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said you would not want a roundabout on Coachline
during rush hour, morning or evening, I guarantee you.
MAYOR SUTTON said he had just used it as an example.
Mr. Prol said the would have to do an traffic engineering study to justify such an
installation.
COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY said she- could see the strategy on Clark Farms
Boulevard. She said if you are coming from Tangerine, and Carl has had problems in
his neighborhood, maybe it would be just enough to slow people down. She went on
to say another advantage for off-time not rush-time traffic is one way you can just
keep going without having to stop and start again, so you kind of have the continuity
of old Marana where you can, basically, get around without stopping and starting.
She said she could see an advantage that way, depending upon the traffic volume.
COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said people are going to be using Clark Farm
to get to Town Hall. Having all your employees, Town Hall is going to be the
centralized location, and there will be a lot of traffic going in and out. He said the
~~ easiest means of arriving at Town Hall would be down Clark Farm because Barnett is
no longer there. He said he thinks there is going to be more traffic in that area.
MAYOR SUTTON said employees driving to Town Hall would not even show up
on a traffic report because it is a very small number of trips.
COUNCIL MEMBER BLAKE said but you have to also consider the fact that, in
this general area, will be the highest density of homes, so there will be more traffic
with more density.
MAYOR SUTTON asked if there were any other questions.
MR.REUWSAAT asked about traffic circles, saying that Tucson was increasingly
using traffic circles when going back into the neighborhoods as a traffic calming.
MAYOR SUTTON asked what a traffic circle is.
MR. REUWSAAT said it is the smaller version in a residential area.
COUNCIL MEMBER McGORRAY said there is one in Tucson National and that
you can make a left and go around or just go straight across.
MR. REUWSAAT said when he went through afive-block area from Ace Hardware
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JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
to his daughter's house, there are three traffic circles in the residential area.
COUNCIL MEMBER ESCOBEDO said in South Tucson, near the rodeo grounds,
if go one street over, you have them every intersection.
MR. REUWSAAT said it is very residential and what is does is just keeps him from
speeding through the neighborhood, because when he gets to the corner, then he has
to slow down around it, which, for me, is a different concept. Do you put higher-end
traffic volumes that would be acceptable on a roundabout. He said, let's say Clark
Farms corner. If you said it is only good till 24,000, you know that the capacity of
that street will be 24,000, would you recommend to go ahead and put a traffic
roundabout in that; or do we know that at least for the last 5,000 or 7,000 or 10,000
cars you are going to start to get frustration?
Mr. Prol said that the projection they have as of now for Clark Farms are that both of
those roundabouts will operate at a level of service till 2030. That's from Curt
Lueck's study.
MAYOR SUTTON Mike, like you were just saying, my whole idea for looking at
this is we get all the calls for people speeding on Palm Brook and Maple Ridge, do
they just get off of Coachline and go as fast as they can to their house? We put
motorcycle cops, and do all kind of stuff out there. He said these are not traffic
controls, just people getting the last 500 yards of their trip, but they are doing 50
where they should be doing 25. He said if something like that was planned into
residential, interior, if we get too much traffic, and like Carol said people are used to
getting around out here, I don't want to put obstructions in people's way that live out
here; but if we could plan better on the inner parts of a community, it would erase
some of the headache that we know we're dealing with now. He said if we could go
into Continental Ranch and place several roundabouts, which will not be done with
easements and people owning homes and stuff, there are a few areas where it would,
absolutely, be a great think for the community.
Mr. Prol said we were talking earlier about the neighborhood traffic management
program that we are putting together, and traffic circles is one of the things we will be
looking at and, also, speed humps. He said the flat-top speed humps are very popular
back East.
UNIDENTIFIED said he is a resident of Continental Reserve but also a traffic
engineer and I want to compliment one thing that Fernando said. You would not
want to put it on an arterial road, but another thing is you do not want to put them
where there is a prevalent major movement and a minor movement. If both volumes
are similar, then it works much better. He said a couple of examples were Hartman
and Linda Vista, or maybe the area where Wade Road connects to that Pima Farms or
12
ROUNDABOUT STUDY SESSION
MARANA TOWN HALL
13251 N. LON ADAMS ROAD
JUNE 1, 2004, 5:30 p.m.
comes out Continental Circle. .
Mayor Sutton asked if there was anything further, stating there was another meeting
starting in a little bit.
III.
ADJOURNMENT
The Mayor adjourned the meeting. The time was 6:20 p.m.
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing are the true and correct minutes of the
Roundabout Study Session held on June 1, 2004. I further certify that a
quorum was present.
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elyn onson, Town Clerk „~~„ ~O~ coA~ rf~ y
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13